I am here with Pete Wolfkill. We're in Edgemere. It's Monday, April 3rd, 2006. Tell me a little bit about where you grew up.

Well, I was born in Lewistown, Pennsylvania, 1934. My family moved here to Millers Island originally in 1940. I lived there briefly for a couple months, and then we moved to Fort Howard. I started school in the Fort Howard Elementary School in 1940 and for only for about six months, and then we moved back to Millers Island, and then I went to Edgemere Elementary School. We stayed there until the seventh grade. Went to Sparrows Point High School. I never completed the high school. And when we moved from Millers Island in 1950 I lived right next door I am living right now, and I started at Sparrows Point Bethlehem Steel Corporation on August the 13th, 1952. Retired in 1996.

How come your family moved down from Lewistown?

Well, I think work up there was bad. My dad worked in a little steel mill up in Lewistown and work was bad and we had a large family and he just couldn't make it, so he moved down here to get the job at Sparrows Point.

So your dad worked at Sparrows Point?

Yes.

And he was one of the group that came right before the start of the second world war?

Yes. He worked in the ship yard. After the shipyard closed down -- not closed down, but after the war, it sort of slowed up, then he transferred to the steel side. But not only my father worked there, but I had -- I'm one of 13 children, and all my brothers and my three sisters, a couple brother-in-laws, all together 17 people out of my family worked at Sparrows Point at one time or another. I think I still have two nephews that still work at Sparrows Point.

Really?

Right.

When you were a kid, what was it like being in a Sparrows Point family?

Just like any other kid I suppose.

Well, I mean your father -- let's talk more about the steel mill. '46, he went to the steel mill. You would have been 12 years old?

Well, he went to the steel mill when I was only six years old. He moved down from Pennsylvania and got a job and worked for a time until he could move the family down.

Well, many of the families talk about the difficulties with the shift work.

Well, no, he didn't work very much shift work. I didn't work much shift work either. Mine was a primarily daylight job. If a blast furnace come down for repairs, it required around the clock job, and at times they put us on nighttime maybe for a week, two weeks or something like that, but primarily it was a daylight job.

Well, what did your dad do at Sparrows Point?

He was pipefitter.

He was a pipefitter also. So he was in the trades.

Myself, I was a pipefitter. My brother Bill was a pipefitter. My brother Joe was a pipefitter. My brother Dick was a pipefitter, and I have two other brothers at one time or another worked in the pipe shop. My one brother Jim, he went to college then and went into the engineering department, and he ended up as a general foreman in the pipe mill. My other brother, the one we call Tank, he quit in 1950 as soon as the Korean War broke out, and he went to the service and he stayed in there and retired after 28 years of service.

So what did your father tell you about Sparrows Point when you were a kid? Do you remember anything?

No, really didn't tell me much of anything. When I went to school at Sparrows Point, myself, I used to sit in the school and I would look across the window. You could see the big bridge cranes in the pour fields, and they would move back and forth this way and things going by and I was so amazed--how do them things work, how would anything so big move, and then I just I think my destiny was then there. I was so amazed by the things that I did see from the outside, I wanted to see what was inside, and well, it happened.

How old were you when you started work down there?

Eighteen.

And Sparrows Point was famous for always hiring relatives?

Oh, yes. Like I said, I think 17 -- about 17, 18 of our family worked down there. Like I say two more may still be working there.

So how did you apply for the job?

Well, my father and the general foreman who was in charge of the place were good friends, and every time one of the boys come of age, he would say Mr. John, I've got another boy that's ready to go to work.  Well, send him down, tell him to go down to the employment office, tell them that Mr. Seifert said for me to come down here and give them a job. So I think that's how most of my brothers got their jobs, too.

Well, what was it like your first day at work?

Well, that's a funny one. I went down and they took me over to the open hearth to the fellow I was going to work with, so I followed him around like a little dog I guess. Anyhow, we went over to one of the open hearths to do a steam leak, repair a steam leak, and me not knowing anything, how hot these pipes were, I grabbed a hold of it and oh, oh, oh, and good thing it wasn't high pressure steam or I would have burnt my hand. I learned one lesson, number one, don't touch anything that's hot.

So you started right in the pipe shop?

Yes.

And working with your dad then?

Well, no, I didn't work with my dad. I started there in '52, and I think because my brother Dick was working with my father and he was taking a test to become a pipefitter. You had to work as a helper for so much, and then when he went out with tools, then I went with my father and I worked with him until -- let's see, that was '53, 1956. Then I went in the Army for two years and come back out and went back into the pipe fitting again, but I didn't work with my dad no more after that.

What was it like working with your father?

Great, real great. He was a good teacher, he's a good man all together. All of us boys worked with him. We all got along real good with him. Not only a father, but a good friend.

Were you still living at home then?

Yes, living right next door.

And then when you got married, you bought this house?

Well, this is my second marriage, but I was living here when this house was built or I was in the Army, but the house was being built whenever we were living next door.

This would be in the '57, '58 period?

Yes, right, that's when it was, and then when I divorced in 1960, I remarried in 1964, bought this place in 1965, and this is where I still am. It's a wonderful place to live, a good neighborhood, good people.

Well, what was it like then going from being a helper -- what did you have to learn to be a pipefitter?

You have to learn almost everything there is concerning pipe. We worked from anything from the pipe the size of my finger, even smaller, clear up to -- I put big concrete sewer pipes in even down there at the Point, but every phase of pipe fitting you can think about, gas, oil, oxygen, anything, we had to do it all.

And for people who are not familiar with the steel industry or the steel plant, there's piping everywhere.

That's right. I worked in every -- I think every building, every phase of the steel company there was. Now, I know people that worked at Bethlehem Steel never got outside of the one mill that they worked in for 30 or 40 years, and I started and I have been everywhere from the pour fields to the finishing sides, I did it all. Worked in all the blast furnaces, the coke oven furnaces, the pipe mill furnaces, the boiler houses, everywhere, I worked it all.

What was it like; income pretty good?

Oh, yes, we made a good living. I can't complain about that.

You came back out of the service in '58 and shortly after that the steel workers had a major strike.

Yes.

What do you remember about the strike?

I didn't work for three months or four months, whatever it was, but we managed because the union at the time with the families, they tried to provide you with a certain amount of food. We did -- my dad got us -- one time or another we worked somewhere -- I can't remember, some laundry or something, we was doing some remodeling work and had some pipe work to do, so we went up there with my father and worked up there for a couple weeks, just bring enough money in, but we kept going anyhow. Managed like everybody else. It was tough, but we made it.

What were the issues in the strike? Do you remember?

God, I really don't know. To me I was only a kid and I didn't bother.

Who were the officers of the union then? Do you remember that?

Not even that, no, I don't. I was not really an active union member.

At any time? You were not active at any time?

No, not really. I went to a few meetings, but I never got -- I was always busy. I even worked part time sometimes, tended bar part time at nighttime and all that, things like that.

So what was it like as the mill started to decline?

Well, it wasn't good. It was good for me, but for a lot of people, no. I can say one thing, I worked 44 years, never was laid off, never lost a day's pay that wasn't my own fault, because even in some of the time in the slowdowns, people was laid off, certain places areas may shut down, people and all, but at that time being in maintenance we were able to go in the mills and do work that they couldn't normally do when the mill was in operation. I don't think I ever lost a day's work that wasn't my own fault. Very fortunate.

Were you part of the Bethlehem Steel community outside the plant? Did you see a lot of the workers and your family?

Well, yeah, we were pretty well -- even now we have -- every year we have for the people that are still there and retired we have a dinner, like a get-together at one of the clubs, it's the Hawks Pleasure Club over in Essex, and we all go there and have a nice night dinner, beer, a big bull crapping session, telling stories or remember the guys and the things, some of the funny things that the guys -- some guys were funny in some ways and just some of the things we did, the jobs we worked on and stuff like that. It's really wonderful.

Why don't you tell us some of the stories that you would tell there.

I don't know. Just when somebody brings something up about a certain guy, oh, you remember old big belly Benny, big guy, and he was a funny character himself, and just -- I don't know, it's hard to think about all of the people because there's been so many of them, the old timers, and they were good -- one thing I liked about everybody chipped in and helped another guy. If I was working over here and I had to lift something heavy, maybe the two of us, my helper and I couldn't do it or whatever, we would go get another guy or say hey, how about giving me -- yeah, come over and help us, and it really was like family. I miss a lot of the guys, I really do. One fellow I worked with when I become a fitter, guy named Bill Vancure, he worked with me for 23 years until I wanted to slow down a little bit, and then I went into the plumbing shop and then he went on and stayed as a pipefitter. I think he is still working I believe.

What was the plumbing shop like?

Good. I had a truck where I would ride over the place, repairing the toilets and the sinks and repairing the steam traps and stuff like that, mostly in the locker rooms, in the bathrooms and the offices, and all that kind of stuff. I even worked one time in the main office for 13 weeks at night to put a new copper hot water pipes all through the whole main office. We even went out to the disposal plant where the company has a pumping station out there, we done work out there. Some of the guys at one time or another used to go to Dundalk to the YMCA building because Bethlehem Steel was really good about the neighborhood, they maintained the facilities at the YMCA in Dundalk, and they also took care of the golf course up here. I even worked out in the golf course one year.

At the country club.

We was driving four-foot pipe pilings across the little creek so they could put a foot bridge across the creek. I loved it, I really do.

This is while you were being paid by the mill?

Yeah, they paid for everything out there.

Were you there when the town of Sparrows Point was still in existence before?

Yeah, I retired in '96.

Well, did you ever do any work in town or were you in the pipe shop --

Well, only if a water main busted. We maintained all the underground facilities like the steam lines, they have steam lines providing heat for some of the buildings in the town and the main water line. I never went into the houses to do any kind -- they had a separate department that did that. That was the real estate department that took care of the inside the homes and stuff like that.

What was it like having a town right there in the mill?

Well, I don't know. I didn't live in Sparrows Point, but I know a lot of the kids I went to school was born and raised and then over in the bungalows, so I don't know actually what it would be like to living in there, I don't have no idea about that.

And then it was torn down and the new furnace was built?

Yeah. Well, I was working there when they built the furnace and all.

Must have been a lot of work for the pipefitters?

Well, the furnace itself was done by outside contractors, but they had some lines like there was one particular line run right past through there, the oxygen line that I put in myself. You see the big lines when you come across from Dundalk, that yellow and green lines that go in there, myself and my brother and some of the other guys, we put them in from the oxygen plant clear to number four open hearth, we did them jobs.

How long did it take you?

Probably six months or more because that's a good ways. We had to put the columns up, set those and try to hang all the pipe and everything. Took us about six months I think, a good while.

Did your kids ever work over there?

My children, no, but like I say a lot of my family did.

How come your kids never did?

Well, I don't know. They just never -- well, let's see 40 years ago, my boy is 20 -- 20 years ago, he wasn't interested in going there anyhow, so I only have two, I have two children. My boy lives directly behind me now as a matter of fact. He wanted to move, but he didn't move far enough away from home.

So you were there when women started working in the mill?

Yeah. I had like I say two sisters and a sister-in-law that worked as tin floppers in the tin mill, but women worked at the mill way back in the '40s flipping tin, but then --

In the '70s.

Then we had women come in starting to get into mechanical. As a matter of fact, we had two girls that was in the pipefitters.

Who were they; do you remember their names?

No, I don't remember, but I think they came out of over in the hot mill somewhere, over in that area, come in, and then later on I think they transferred back to the hot mill.

You don't remember what year this was?

No.

And how were they to work with? Was it a change for the guys?

Real good. I had a little black lady which was -- she lives right down here on Sparrows Point Road. God, she was a good worker, good welder, wonderful person to work with.

What's her name?

Toni -- gosh, can't remember the last name. Toni, she lives right on Sparrows Point Road, and a wonderful person to work with.

Do you still see her from time to time?

I haven't seen her now for a couple of years. I used to do a lot of walking, and the last time I seen her I was walking past her house, and she was over there, she hollered at me and I come over and we talked a little bit. MRS. WOLFKILL: Boyd.

Yes, Toni Boyd, my wife just reminded me of that.

That's why wives are good.

Yeah. Do you want to come out, honey. You can come out here and sit with me.

Well, you are talking about Toni Boyd coming to work there. The last couple of years there's been quite a controversy about moving the black steel workers.

Well, I ain't found nothing wrong with them. I worked with a lot of them. As a matter of fact, I run into one, I was up at the flea market Saturday, and a fellow named Bob Thomas, a welder, another wonderful guy to work with. I just as soon have him working with me as anybody, I don't care who it was, because he was a good worker and just a good man. I have worked with a lot of black people. I have no comparing with them. They were good working people, good hard working people, and they was there to make a living, and we worked together, we got along fine. Never had no problem with them.

Because for some people they are resentful, but you seem to have a better attitude toward them.

In the town where I come from, of course I don't remember it, but my dad -- and they only had a couple of black families in that town. They went to school I think with our brothers and sisters way back in the '30s and no problem, and my dad always got along good with them and I had respect for them. As a matter of fact, a lot of times they had the riggers were mostly all black people, and if I would be working around and doing something and they seen me doing something wrong, "Hey, Wolfy, don't do that. We'll take care of that. We'll move this, move that." They tell you you are going to hurt yourself, don't do that. They helped me, they looked out for me, they really did. I have no complaints.

Which union local were you in?

2610.

And how come you never got more active in the union?

Oh, I don't know. Who knows. I just never got interested in it.

Do you remember any of who your zone men were?

Yeah. Guy named Budrechi, I don't remember his first name. Budrechi was one of them, and I think we had Earl Lewis was -- I think he was a shop steward in our department. Then we have Bill Burdell was a shop steward, but then I don't know too many of them, because I never had no dealings. I only filed one grievance in 44 years I was down there. I only ever filed one grievance and Burdell handled that.

What was the grievance over?

I wanted to go into the plumbing shop, and the general foreman we had at the time, they denied it, so I filed a grievance and there was some kind of an agreement that the senior people had the rights to bid into the plumbing shop or wherever they wanted to go, certain rights.

Because it was considered lighter work?

Well, it was lighter work, yeah, and I did my time in the big and heavy work and stuff like that, so I figured it was time to do my time, I think it was the last five years. I think I was due my time to go in the plumbing shop. So I filed a grievance and eventually after about a year they finally let me go in the plumbing shop.

Well, when you were there, did you start to see the decline of Bethlehem Steel?

The decline of Bethlehem Steel really started back in the '70s.

Tell me about it.

Well, I don't know a whole lot about it, but I know they started signing these agreements I think when -- was when Reagan was the President I think the biggest part of it started, and I think the imports, they started letting the imports come in, more and more all the time, and I think that was the beginning of the fire of the steel company and the whole industry in the whole United States, and it just kept going and going and going until -- and too much money being invested in the foreign countries because all these -- I'm saying the people that had money wasn't getting enough from here, so they start invested in the foreign countries. Greed, I think it's greed. Greed and politics, that's what ruined the whole dog gone industry I believe, and it's ruining this whole country right now myself, that's my opinion, greed and politics.

What can we do?

I don't know, I don't know what the answer is. I really don't know.

Well, how did your situation change after December of 2003?

2003?

When Bethlehem Steel went bankrupt.

My situation, well, it didn't affect me too much. I mean fortunately I'm still getting my pension, I am still getting my Social Security, but we did lose the medical benefits, which was a big hit because I think I was only paying like $64 a month or something like that for the benefits and the prescription drugs were cheaper. Now I'm paying -- God, I think every three months I send in almost $900 every three months for me and my wife just for my medical benefits. But one good thing this new company, ISGB, give us this prescription program which is a big help. It costs me ten dollars per month for me and my wife and then our maintenance drugs, which we take every day we get a three month's supply for ten dollars. Some of it might be a little bit more, but most of it is ten dollars, but it was a big help, really big help. But otherwise, pensionwise and Social Securitywise, I'm still able to maintain my -- but I can see it's going -- who was that guy? Greenspan I believe it was, made a recommendation to the President to reduce Social Security pensions to make Social Security more solid in the years to come. Well, and PBG says Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation [PBGC] says we have so many of these big corporations like the airlines are going down, it's a possibility that General Motors might go down, all these companies are all underfunded with their pensions, benefits, and eventually with nothing else coming in, we're going to have to cut -- the PBGC pensions are going to be cut. So ten years from now I might be in the same position as some of -- like my neighbor over there, retired 20 years ago and they are on a very low income, they are having a tough time with benefits, medical and everything. Even 10, 15 years from now I might be like they are, worrying about how am I going to pay my bills. Right now I'm doing fine, but ten or fifteen years from now, if I live that long, I don't know what I'm going to do.

If you had to do it over again, would you go to work at Bethlehem Steel?

Yes, I would. I would go down there tomorrow if they called me. I really would. I liked that place. I really loved the work I was doing, I did, and I would go tomorrow. I was called back one time. I went down for the interview and the funny thing is the day that I was supposed to go back and start working for them, it's the day that was sold to the first guy that bought it. I can't remember his name.

Wilbur Ross.

Wilbur Ross, yeah. I think that's the one that bought it. I think he was the first one, and the day I was supposed to go back to work is the day they come in to see if they wanted to buy the place, and I lost out, because I would have loved to went back.

What were you going to do; work in the pipe shop again?

I was going to be -- John Novack, which was one of my foremen when I left, assistant general foreman, he's the one that called me and asked if I want to come back. He said you will be coming in as an individual contractor. I don't know how my pay was supposed to work out, but essentially do the same thing I was doing in the plumbing shop that I was doing when I retired, but I would be like an independent contractor, and I was looking forward to that and really disappointed when it didn't work.

Looking forward to seeing all the guys?

Oh, yeah. I still look forward to seeing them. Like I say, I look forward to that little reunion we have every year. Every month, once a month now at the union hall, we have the third Tuesday of every month, we go up there and I look forward to -- we have about probably 10 or 15 guys that show up every month. I really look forward to it.

Ten or fifteen ironworkers?

Well, I'm talking about the pipefitters. There's at least 10 or 15 ironworkers, too, and I know a lot of them. I know the ironworkers, the pipefitters, carpenters, electricians, because they were jobs that we all worked together on, and the blast furnace was down, repair and things we all worked together. People from the lube shop. Eventually we combined with the lube shop people, and the tin mill pipefitters we more or less worked all as one department later on.

You probably spent more time with them now than you did when you were active.

Yes. I know I look forward to it. I don't miss it unless there's some reason that I can't go. I look forward to it every year, every month.

Well, where is all your family? Are they still around? Any of them still working down there?

Well, I think two nephews are still working down there. I have lost three brothers passed away, and I have a brother that lives in Texas, a brother that lives out in Jarrettsville, and a brother that lives in Rosedale, and there's only four of us living. Out of eight boys, there's only four left.

That's a huge Bethlehem Steel family though.

Oh, yeah. We all made a good living. I don't think anybody can complain about the money that they made and stuff like that. It was good, it was a good place to work.

You don't remember any of the particular good stories that if you were going to tell your kids a story --

I don't think I could tell them.

What maybe I will do is I will come up to the retirees' meeting and get you guys -- well, I have been up there one time, that's when I first met you and Joe, and I went up to Joe's house, and he actually was nice enough -- he saved a big wooden sign that said, "Drink your soda from steel cans."

Is that right? I remember that. They had that campaign going on down there. I was going to show -- I've got some things I will show you from Sparrows Point that I've got if you want to stop the thing a minute.

Sure. What is that plaque?

When I was on my 40th year, Raybuck was then the general manager, and he would put on a dinner for all the retirees that retired with 40 years service. I think they done this for about -- I think they only done it for four or five years when he was the general manager. If you want to hold on to that.

Beautiful.

And they also give me this little clock, and it says right on the top of it, "Bethlehem Steel, in recognition of loyal service to the Sparrows Point plant."

That's a beautiful clock. Does it still run?

Yeah, but I don't run it. I've got so many clocks in the house now. Like I say I've got these books, I saved them over the years, a lot of them. This is the 1990 annual report from Bethlehem Steel. Here's one that's called "The Bethlehem Review," and in this one here is the pictures from the retirement party. Is this the one -- let me check.

And this was the magazine that the company put out?

Yeah, they put these -- we used to get these two or three times a year. This is the one from the year that I retired and all the pictures are in there from the different departments. Here's a picture with myself, three of the guys I worked with all retired the same year, in the bottom sitting down there.

Melvin Cowan, Melvin Thomas.

Yeah, the four of us right there, myself and then Wimpy Croft. We were all working in the same department, we all retired the same year, but that was taken the 40 year service though. We all retired the same year, but we all had our 40 years in at the same time. I have these books that go back. I even have one or two of them from back in the '40s, back in 1948 I have got one.

Those are amazing.

Might be in the other bag. I have over a hundred of these books, all the projects from the time I worked there, because I went there in '52. A lot of the mills when they built a new mill or put a different thing in, just pictures and the stories are in these books over the years. A lot of them I worked on myself.

All right. Well, any other memories?

Just off mind I can't bring them up. It would take time probably to think about, but yeah, there are probably a lot of memories but to just to grab them right offhand and talk about them, it's tough to say.

Is there somebody that you can remember you worked with that you would really like to see that you don't see any more, someone you were particularly close to down there you had good times with?

Well, almost all the guys. I mean we were close, everybody, that was down there, and well, one particular guy I talked to him on the phone awhile back, Willy Vancure, we worked 23 years together, and he was still working, but he had a heart problem, was in the hospital and had bypass surgery and everything. I talked to him a couple of weeks ago on the telephone, but I haven't seen him. But my wife just said to me yesterday you better call Willy and see how Willy is doing, so I'm going to have to give him a call.

So did you see all these guys off the job, did you socialize a little bit?

Well, I seen Bob Thomas, I seen him at the flea market.

I mean while you were at work, did your families get together, or did you pretty much just work together and then separate after you left?

No, just about separated. They didn't have no kind of yearly reunions or picnics or parties or stuff like that at that time, but now at the union hall -- but some of the guys they are not interested at all, they won't even come to the union hall. Every time I see one that I don't see, why don't you come down to the union hall. I might do that. But they never come down, but I wish they would because it's good. If once they got there and seen how the guys will get together and the camaraderie that's there, they might come back.

And do you ever do any of the trips from the hall, the Washington or any of these?

No, I did most of that on my own, my wife and I. We've been on four -- Eastern Caribbean, Western Caribbean, Bermuda, Mississippi River boat cruise, Alaskan cruise, bus trips to the Canadian Rockies to Nova Scotia, we've been all around.

I was thinking more do you ever do any of the lobbying trips that the retirees do?

No, no, no. I know I should, but my thing is I go up there and there will probably be so many people trying to get on them buses, I don't even bother.

I guess the other thing is you are living now probably three miles away from the plant, where a lot of the younger people move far away?

Right. One of my foreman, John Novack, he is still working down there. He lives up around Hanover somewhere, so he is driving every day back and forth from Hanover to here.

Kind of the next generation has moved out of the area, moved to Bel Air, Cecil County?

A lot of people -- even 20 years ago they lived -- well, they moved because back then the money was good, the roads were good, the traffic was -- you didn't have -- it wasn't as it used to be, because I remember when North Point Road was bumper to bumper for three or four miles.

Just getting into the plant?

Yeah, and 95 now, you go up 95 unless there's an accident you can be in Bel Air in a half hour. In fact, 40, 50 years ago it would take you three hours to get down there.

When you worked as a pipefitter, did you have time clocks?

Yeah, we had to punch a card every day.

Punch a card in and out?

Every day you punch a card, give it to your foreman, punch it out. Now they have a card where you just slide it through and it's automatically taken care of.

All right. Well, I want to thank you then very much for your time and we'll close this interview out with Pete Wolfkill.